AltME: Red Docs


Thanks Gregg, having a separate group will be helpful, it's a broad topic anyway.

Maybe talking about this is too early, but if there is a easy way to support localization, that would be great. We hope Red's Documentation can be translated into Chinese, Japanese, ...
I do like a lot of the REBOL docs, which took time and effort to create. Wikis are good for reference information. I agree with Arnold that good examples are important. I'll add that giving people a starting point is helpful. For example, have example scripts for different types of apps or features; CGI, pipe and filter, command line handling, etc.
I also think format fragmentation is bad. REBOL's docs are fragmented, which makes it hard to know the best place to put something. Being able to share data, or have a common doc db that can be rendered in different ways, would be great.
Gregg - totally agree on avoiding doc fragmentation. This is a serious consideration for newcomers who need a guiding hand to see the overall picture. It's pretty important to convey a sense of being authoritative on documentation. Another related issue is that of keeping documentation current/clean. Old, deprecated, outdated material should be deleted or at least be made a lot less visible in the community.
If there is really outdated documentation it should not made invisible, but marked as obsolet since when.
Maybe some programs were made with special features relying on that old behavior.
When I was trying to learn REBOL, the most helpful document was the cookbook,
Different subjects, but covers almost all the subjects, and they are all complete. If we do something like that and give links to related wiki pages about the topic of the example, it would be a great way to learn RED for beginners.
And the most difficult thing was the fragmented docs, we should avoid that..
Carl wrote a number of examples in his blog early on. They were very helpful to me as well.
"And the most difficult thing was the fragmented docs, we should avoid that." - I suggest also later on that Red provides functions directly in the interpreter to invoke any official help documents.
The best way for documentation is a wiki, where people can easily ragiter, log in and edit.
Arnold, you can make popups with copy and paste possibility - check this quick remake of the original Carl's reference page:
Here is script which I used to cerate it... note that there are not existing links in Carl's reference (in the GUI section). Hope Red will have documentation without such a silly errors.
And regarding version for tablets, I believe that it's better to have separate version for tablets which would better work with the limited screen resolution. I can imagine nice looks for that as well.. it just need to have nicely structured and centralised documentation data which can be used as a source for different looks.
I think that the best way would be to parse sources (with some unified structure) to get the documentation data. It should be part of Red's main repository.
There are many kind of docs, what I want to provide first is the "reference documentation", which provides an exhaustive description of all the language features (in a user-friendly way, not in a formal way) and explains "how it works". Basically the REBOL/Core manual (but exhaustive) + "how it works", so with some chapters on memory management, execution model, in depth modules/contexts/binding model,...
sqlab, I didn't say invisible, just a lot less visible. You should realize that outdated documentation is essentially "noise" which makes learning what's current more difficult. Of course there should always be a way to get to an old API reference. On an authoritative source, this should be done in a very subtle way so as to minimize information overload - maybe with a clear, but small link at the bottom of the current version docs. Non-authoritative sources can, of course, maintain all the old information and present it in any way they choose.
When it comes to advice on best approaches, optimizations, etc., it's very important to promote the "current" recommended way of doing things so that new code being written based on these docs don't lead to the incorporation of work-arounds for problems that have long since been worked out.
If a command in RED and Rebol share the same name, but behave diferently, these differences should be clearly shown or explained
I think I should chime in here because I am one of those people who are not naturally inclined toward the programming arts. I see that many of you realize that the docs have to reach a vast audience from novice to expert. That will involve using different methods of presentaton and detail. How would you envision the database to look like. If we could create something pretty complete then I think all the desired above could be accomplished. For what it's worth I use the following:
The rebol dictionary - to look up words and usage I can't remember, try to decipher some functionality I need, hopefully find examples.
The View docs - to find out how things works and to remember how certain words work
Everything I can find on Parse - This is one subject that is all over the place.
Nick's tutorial and Reboltutorial - To learn about topical items that one can do in rebol such as sound and animation.
Altme - Asking all of you, especially Henrik, if I can do something and how or when something doesn't work. - To find scripts that do things I need to do
Google - OK, this is generic and possibly obvious but when I am trying to figure something out, it's "Rebol ..."
The above items are my  most used resources and not exclusive. Note, for me the R3 docs were harder to navigate, especially a few years ago when I was looking at the GUI stuff. To me at least they seemed all over the place.
So, if one were to analyze that usage, it may help to develop something that can accomplish those different needs.
I think that something like is the best thing. You may organize topics, correct, edit and add pages
"Everything I can find on Parse - This is one subject that is all over the place." - I am curious whether you read
as one of the sources?
Yes Ladislav, I have and that's a good one. I guess parse requires some more parsing. Parse is one of the hardest parts of rebol for me so when I say it's all over the place it's that different people write different things about how to use it. I mean, it seems like someone could write an entire book on it for guys like me. One place I continue to go to is Brett's but when it comes to dialects
That all said, perhaps this leads us to documentation that is very tutorially-oriented. Thank you for your response, Ladisalv.
Doc, for implementation details, you and a few others who know will have to provide the basic information. If there is cleanup and wordsmithing to be done, as long as others can edit it easily, I would leave that to someone else. Write the best doc you can, of course, but don't worry if it's not perfect. Your time should be spent doing things nobody else can do as well, using what you know, and what you know is planned.
For friendly user reference, do you have a style of docs you want to mimic, or an idea of how you want the doc data managed? e.g., do you want to use a wiki, so that infrastructure is all there?

Last message posted 103 weeks ago.