AltME: Ann-Reply

Messages

Reichart
Bo, you did a great job.
None of this is needed, just things to consider in future videos.
- Transitions - When looking at hardware, do a slow zoom-in, not left/right or up/down wipes.  It is always best to make it easier and easier to see the hero.
- When showing graphs comparing speeds or other metrics, just use shades of gray for the competition, and a single colour (perhaps the blue of the mother board) for your hero device.  It will read much better.
- I'm a fan of throwing a TOC on the screen for tech break downs like this.  It can be vertical or horizontal.  For example, show I/O, POWER, SPEED in a row/column, etc.  While you are talking about a given topic, highlight that word on the screen.  With this, people can zoom to the section they care about, and know where they are in the video.  You can leave your logo in a corner of this as well.
Bo
Reichart, thanks for the excellent advice! I'll try to make use of that next time.

Reichart
:)
Kaj
Did YouTube move to Belgium? :-)

Maarten
Where did BrianS post this? That's a pretty good piece of work
Rebolek
In the Stack Overflow chat.
Maarten
OK, I'm ready to be upvoted so I can participate. Just asked a question
Rebolek
Question upvoted.
Maarten
thanks
Robert
Very cool to things move forward!
Maarten
Yes, indeed.
Gregg
Go Ren/C Go!

james_nak
Nice video Bo.

Gerard
Are there many Red users that have used Ren Garden from HostileFork since it has appeared or any other GUI framework or editor based?

Gerard
In all cases, many thanks to you BrianD for all of your software Ren/C, Ren/Cpp + Ren/Garden. Let us know about your future experiments. I love the way you work and the results you have got up to now.
Thanks AdrianS for reporting to us BrianD's work.

Arnold
Back from holiday so I can upvote again. What is the link to your question Maarten?

Arnold
That is an impressive list of  improvements John! Hope your thesis did not suffer too much :-)
Geomol
Thanks, Arnold. I use the World language in my university studies, so the language helps that way to finish.
Gregg
Congratulations John. That's a big release.

Reichart
Impressive.
Rebolek
Can you have a look at APPEND-TEXT routine in %scintila-api.red (line 925), please? It crashes on line [c-text: unicode/to-utf8 text :length] and I'm not sure why, it was working before, IIRC.
Oh, wrong group.
DocKimbel
:-)
Endo
Nice work Geomol.
Geomol
:o)

amacleod
RE: R3 and R-Pi.  That's great Bo! I assume that's under linux?
That link downloaded an .exe file?

Arnold
I would like to see the video of the gnashing and stuff.
Henrik
I would love to have R3 for RPi on a small linux with network and graphics on an SD card image... is this possible?
amacleod
I'm confused. Is that not what Bo announced? "R3-View is now available for Raspberry Pi and Pi 2"
But its an .exe file. It can't be for win 10 on pi because I understand that it lacks ui...
DocKimbel
I get an ELF binary from Bo's link, not an .exe.
amacleod
Maybe he changed it. It opened to a reb console on my win box yesturday. Thanks doc.
Gregg
In any case, this is great progress.
GregP
Bo: very great news! I hope all the R3 efforts will converge all together.
Bo
http://video.respectech.com:8080/a.com/r3-view is a Linux executable, not a Windows .exe file. It should have never worked on Windows unless you're running an emulator. :-)
It should work on any libc6 Linux distro, so probably not BSD variants or some versions of Linux.
My build and test platform was an ODROID-W with a built-in 2.2" LCD screen, seen here: http://ameridroid.com/products/odroid-w-development-kit-as-is
As far as Win 10 on Raspberry Pi 2, I'm going to pass on that one as I'd much rather use Linux if I'm relegated to a CLI...

GiuseppeC
Nice work GEOMOL !

Geomol
Thanks!

Bo
Arnold: It would be cool to see a little video of Xiangqi for those of us who are too busy to set it up and compile it. :-)
Kaj
Congratulations Arnold
Arnold
Thanks Kaj!
Would a compiled version be ok? Maybe I'll make a video.

Reichart
Videos of "how to" make everyone happy.

Arnold
That is how to rock, posted in Muzak, happy now ;-)

Arnold
Thank you Nick. It is a bit long over an hour.
Gregg
Will try to watch sometime Nick. Thanks for posting. All sounds good.
Endo
Thank you Nick, looks interesting.
Bo
NickA: WinXP! I'm not the only one still using it (on two computers)!
I also run:
- Win8 for my work office computer
- Win7 on one home media computer
- Android 4.4 on an ODROID running another home media computer
- Ubuntu 12.x on my laptop
- Ubuntu 14.x on an ODROID on my home file server, and
- Android 5.x on my phone. :-)
WiseGenius
Bo: I reacted to seeing that in the same way. I'm also running XP on 2 computers. I run many other OSes, including Win7, in a VM on one of them.
NickA
Yep, I still keep the Win98 install files on a thumb drive 'just in case' - and every piece of software I need still runs on it :)
Arnold, as soon as I get time, I'll put up a much more terse written tutorial with some additional example apps.  I just felt like sharing this thing because it's been useful.  With about an hour of play time, posting a video was just simpler to complete.

Arnold
Nick, I am just a bit  envious, wanting to make the small video of compiling my Xiangqi game, and finding out I have no time and place to make it., and here you come and do a video of over an hour :-)
Reichart
Arnold, I use Screen O Matic, it only allows    5 minutes (free verison) but I sort of like being forced to sum up talks in under 5 minutes.  
What I often do is write a simple script of bullet points.  Wear a headset, and do a dry run.  It forces me to hear and see the timing.
Then I reset, prepare windows and data so I can jump right to things, and just keep doing it over and over until I make no mistakes.  I usually can present something that is 3 minutes long in about 5-7 takes.
So, one hour all said.

Bo
I made a "selfie helmet" so I can record videos hands free. But nobody wants to be seen wearing it.
NickA
That video was made with Debut video capture software:  http://www.nchsoftware.com/capture/   If you try it, encode to mp4 and turn up the video bit rate.  Even with a 2048 bit rate, that whole video was 120megs.
WiseGenius
szeng: Since they are symmetric, do the curley braces need to be escaped like that?
Reichart
Bo, a friend of mine that does a Podcast  does teh same thing, so that the Mic is always directly in front of him.
Yes, he looks like an Angler Fish.

Reichart
Arnold, cool, I will attempt to do this, but from a PC.
Arnold
I wrote the entire script, prepared how to find the sources. First a short run to remember how to it worked, (turns out Quicktime is the easiest for me) where I filmed myself instead of the screen. Next during the second short run I faced an internet connection problem that I solved by using Safari and let that connect. Then I cleared up the cache and did the whole video in one take. Showing the red-lang.org site and the github compilation info during compiling was a lucky shot.
Arnold
And after the second run I also did a soundcheck. Would be a nasty surprise if there was nothing to hear.
Arnold
The real thing that puzzles me is that I could make such a program using a PL that is in (pre-)alpha stage. I could not have done it using a well known language that is production ready for decades.

szeng
@WiseGeni Probably not. I didn't know that you don't have to escape brackets if they are symmetric. But I would probably just do it in case I might add some asymmetric brackets later
WiseGenius
You could always just escape those ones. :P Exciting progress you guys are making!
szeng
Uh, that's a neat trick. Thanks!
szeng
Updated
Bo
Arnold: Nice video! You did a nice job of laying out how to do the whole process from start to finish!

Arnold
Thank you very much Bo!

Maxim
Shixin... integrating libtcc within R3 is AMAZING work, thanks for that   :-)
I am very near a project reset which will use R3 within a C/C++ project... being able to compile on the fly, means I can JIT compile my VM , built from within an R3 parse.... amazing
now all I need is to build a NATIVE dialect in R3 parse, and JIT compile it under the hood.
Maxim
is TCC being maintained by someone?

Kaj
Great work, Nick!

NickA
Thanks Kaj :)
Maxim, how is the development of your RDBS for Rebol coming.  Will it be released publicly?
Endo
You are god of tutorials Nick :) Great work!

Maxim
NickA, StoneDB (which is not an RDBMS ;-) is running better and better.  I've built official documentation for it, and it could fit into NoSQL and ADBMS. categories.
    -it now supports larger than RAM DB,
    -has a real graph querying engine (in the spirit of  SPARQL).
    -a TCP based DB management tool
For a few reasons, I've got no clue when it will become public.  Maybe when its R3 port is complete, maybe the public version will be the R2 version, right now I really don't know.  The fact I can't plug into the memory management of R2 is causing issues I can't solve on a long running-instance.
I want to release it, but in the end, I don't have the final word.
Endo
Maxim: Any future plan to port StoneDB to Red + Red/System?
james_nak
Nick, thank you. As usual your work is incredibly helpful. Thank you for taking the time to make the tutorial and for sharing it.

NickA
I'm glad to see the text got read :)  That little tool is becoming ever more useful to me - and breathing new life into Rebol for more and more of my needs.  It's amazing what gems are sitting out in the wild for free...
Max, thank you for the response.  I'm curious what approaches others are taking for high volume data storage, high traffic situations, etc.  RedDB, som RDBMS, custom Rebol solutions?
Gregg
Thanks for keeping us updated Max.
Reichart
StoneDB  :)

amacleod
@NickA : I had a look at jsLinB and I can see its useful but I feel the widgets are more desktop style. How well do they translate for use on mobile/phone?

NickA
The widgets have been functional for my needs on mobile, as long as attention is paid to screen size (keep layouts simple, avoid scrolling).   But yes, they do have a dated desktop look.  There is a skinning capability, and you can create your own 'appearance' files if you need to develop a more definitive mobile style.  The 3 built in skins are all traditional desktop oriented, but if you've got the design inclination, the capability is there.  The newest version of CrossUI has a wider variety of 12 default skins.  And of course, you can adjust the style of any individual widget if you want to change appearances on the fly directly in app code.  There are several code samples which demonstrate style adjustments, in the example applications.
NickA
I also rolled my own 'reactive' sidebar menu, for example, using the default layout and gallery widgets, which automatically opens, scrolls with a finger swipe, auto-hides after a selection, and generally looks a little more modern than, for example, the built in buttonviews widget.  It swaps panels in and out for each of the page views.  Doing that took very little custom code, in a single sitting.
NickA
You may also want to check out the built in animation features in CrossUI, to produce some more contempory effects and UI feel.  I stayed away from CrossUI initially and stuck with the older Sigma builder, because you need to use the packaged Node-Webkit CrossUI distribution, which only runs on desktop platforms (I love being able to run the Sigma development tools on a web server, and use them on any mobile device).  Also, Sigma's LGPL license is less restrictive than CrossUI's commercial requirements.
NickA
All that said, my brain pays very little attention to graphic style (heck, I'm still happy using VID ;) - so my feeling about the topic is not representative of the mainstream reaction.  I only care that it works well and is productive.
Gregg
I'm a patient man. By moving slowly there are periods where I seem behind the times, until fashion changes in its inevitable cycles and I can say "I've been doing that all along."
Kaj
:-)
I'm in exactly such a cycle now :-)

NickA
Thank you Chris

amacleod
Yes, thanks. AltJSON is a very useful script for me.

Endo
Same for me! I used AltJSON and AltXML in many projects.

Chris
Thanks, y'all. Some of the changes make it much easier (in my opinion) to put together some JSON.
For example:
name: "Chris" city: "Philadelphia"
me: [name: :name town: :city]
to-json [user: :me]
No need to mess around with objects, compose or reduce for small packets.
Chris
The escaping I've used for words in this Rebol 2 version is a little crusty though, but does afford some sanity for object keys with spaces, beginning or consisting of numbers, or the word 'self
(Rebol 3 version uses Map! and uses strings for non-conforming keys)

amacleod
Yes, that's want I wanted...blocks to json.

Endo
Doc & Chris, thank you!

Arnold
Homepage of the Pink Panther :-)
Chris
I wanted something a little different to show off the colour support : )
And it is one of seven presets!
amacleod
Chris, Avast is blocking those links detecting threats...

Chris
Well that's no good! Does it say anything specific? (not trying to infect anyone, promise : )
I wonder if it's related to FreeDNS?
Do you get the same outcome for http://desktop.rebol.info/ ?
amacleod
Yep
Infection: URL:Mal

SWhite
Circumstances at my own place of work have necessitated some REBOL documentation tailored to a very specific, and small, audience.  It is not inconceivable that there are other members of that "audience" out there, so I have put my documentation on the internet at http://www.cobolrebol.com/.  Comments are welcome, and I would be especially glad to hear if I have done anything harmful to the "rebolution."  Carl mentioned at one time how some people use REBOL like C, and he seemed not to approve.  It is possible that I am one of those.  Solving the problems of the 19th century with the tools of the 20th...
Maxim
I really like your VID doc  :-)

DocKimbel
Steven: kudos for the hard and good work!
Arnold
For a moment I thought you had a photo of a real sewersaurus there. But it was a sewersuarus.
I ike your COBOL to REBOL. But REBOL has a thing where saying CONSOLE-INPUT: "" can get you into some unexpected trouble. Most of the time it is better to state CONSOLE-INPUT: copy ""
Reichart
Cool
(Not a fan of serif fonts personally)

Gregg
While Carl may not like how COBOL is used, I think he would approve of your docs. You are using REBOL how I think it's intended to be used, by targeting and audience and making it possible for them to apply their knowledge and experience, adapting the tool to them.

SWhite
Thanks to anyone who points out anything I say that is wrong.  The use (or not-use) of the "copy" function in various places has caused me a bit of trouble.  I do look at my own documentation now and then, after some time has passed and I have had a chance to forget, to see if I actually can understand it.  Then I do try to touch it up.
Arnold
Copy is a tricky one indeed. On series, a string is a series, assigning one variable the value of another one, makes a pointer to the other series, so not a separate copy in memory but two vars pointing to the same thing. Use 'copy for making a copy in that case.

NickA
ddharing, That's great - thank you
Gregg
Thanks David (and the whole Atronix team)!
Arnold
function = funct ? Never will get used to funco :-)

Maxim
Bo... simply WOW!
Bo
Thanks! You like it?
The face is done with the R3/Draw dialect.
Maxim
yeah, its really cool  :-)
Bo
But is it still cool at $190 plus shipping? That's what all the components cost.
Part list:
(2) Metal gear micro servos (ankles)
(2) Light duty micro servos (hips)
(1) 8-channel servo controller
(1) ODROID-C1+ single-board computer
(1) 3.2" C1 Touchscreen
(1) LiPo battery controller and 3000mAh battery
(1) 8GB microSD card with Ubuntu 14.04 and robot controller software
(1) 2.4GHz WiFi antenna
(2) 3D-printed feet - various colors available ($3 each)
(2) 3D-printed ankles - various colors available ($1 each)
(1) 3D-printed pelvis - various colors available ($3)
If you want to help with making it better (software or hardware wise), I'll be happy to ship you one for $40 off (contributor/beta-tester discount). :-)
Maxim
other low volume kits are similarly priced AFAIK.
if you can leverageéimprove the "you can tweak it" and add some screen using features (feedback on the touch so it giggles, things like that... its definitely still cool.
it is a high-end gift / toy, but its definitely geek fare  :-)
leverageéimprove == leverage/improve
you may find ways to increase / decrease the prices  with options  (better/worse) components (a remote streamed camera would definitely be cool  :-)
Bo
Oops. I forgot to include the cost of the sound module (USB sound device + amplifier + speaker):
(1) USB Audio Device
(1) 3W Stereo Amplifier
(1) 2W Speaker
$11.85 for the above three items bringing the grand total to $202.15. But I'll give any Rebollers $45 off the full kit.

DocKimbel
Bo: Very nice! Do you ship to China?
Bo
Sure! ameriDroid.com ships to China every week. But we get more shipments from China than we ship to China. :-)
Maxim
maybe you can use other people's HW to reduce your costs...
stuff like this should be pretty reusable:
http://www.ez-robot.com/Explore/
NickA
Thank you Oldes
Oldes
Maxim, regarding FF issue, it's not my problem.. it's not my demo code.. it's just a demonstration how it can look like with different styles. I'm not going any crossbrowser programming:)
Maxim
oldes, in what browser have you made it work?   I can switch from default to nothin and back... so clearly its work, its just that the other styles don't seem to have any actual css attached to them.
Bo
Maxim, that's an idea, but I haven't found another platform that is as expressive as the one I created. Or as powerful for the price. Seriously, it's as powerful as a desktop computer from a few years ago, but tiny and mobile. It can run a db server, web server, video conferencing software, etc.
Maxim
I mainly meant that maybe you can use some of their HW (legs, head, servos, fixtures, cameras, etc.) in your offering, basically just make your software compatible with their HW and then you can just say as much in your marketing and refer to their stuff if its cheaper, easier to increase offering quickly.
in terms of the SoC you are using, for the price, it really is the best one for the price (I checked with a friend yesterday, couldn't find anything really better).. the only other system which might have something a bit more are some cards have a SATA connector... and for me that can be a big deal, when connecting with an SSD I can practically use it as RAM using extra swap in the OS.
one question... is the microSD controler a good one?  does it allow full bandwith of the spec (I've seen mSD cards going up to 100MB/s read and 50MB/s write)
same question for the USB/2/3
Bo
Interesting ideas.
The C1/C1+ doesn't have USB3, but the USB2 is as fast as any other computer. The microSD is better than the one on other SBCs and can fully support UHS-1 while most others can only support up to Class 10. But better yet is the eMMC controller which is akin to SSD memory, but in a smaller form factor. It allows read/write speeds that are much faster and is much more durable than microSD. However, I probably wouldn't recommend using any SSD or eMMC memory for swapping as there are a relatively low finite number of cycles that the flash memory can sustain. Even the SBCs with a SATA controller can't generally push anywhere near the speeds that a standard computer can due to limited bus speeds.
You can see some charts showing real-world speed comparisons under the main image on this page: http://ameridroid.com/products/odroid-c1

NickA
Bo, I wish I had more time to play with that.  Really great!

Oldes
@Maxim - I was using provided Highlight.js tool to build the demo... it looks they are using css paths like: "style\something.css" which does not work in FF but is accepted in Chrome... so I manually replaced them now.
Maxim
ah cool thanks

Arnold
Thank you Ashley for this xmas present :-)

Gregg
Very cool Reichart.

Maarten
Cool Reichart

eFishAnt
When I was in India in 2001 I was thinking of some small granularity financial model in rupies.  $10 minimum seems like an awful lot  0-o-o<
Reichart
$10 for lunch at Chipoltle, and if you will do that, well then, by a Divy worth of stock why don't you? :)

Bo
Sounds neat!

Reichart
"Buy" (I really hate English)

Gregg
Very cool Adrian (and Giulio). Thanks for posting that.

Maxim
cool about emscriptem build
Ladislav
In reaction to Arnold's proposal, I would like to ask what would be the gain if the repository was deleted.

Pekr
Ladislav: as far as I understand what iArnold meant - he simply does not like recent situation - Carl not reviewing tickets. Then Earl got some approval and disappeared too. So iArnold simply thinks, that as Ren-C is mostly the only "community" (ymmv) maintained and active distro, it should be taken and considered as an official R3 build.
Both Atronix and Saphirion have their own ones. Some of those might be considered too. But it is a non vital situation, when almost 3 years after open-sourcing R3, there is a little progress and full list of PRs, noone is about to merge.
Ladislav
"he simply does not like recent situation" - I understand that, but his "solution" is literally throwing out the baby with the bath.
Ladislav
"it should be taken and considered as an official R3 build" - there are two problems with this:
1) while Hostile Fork is claiming that Rebol design lacks analyses, but he neither has sound analyses nor usage experience when changing things
2) users dislike Hostile Forks solutions
3) according to objective test results, his Rebol clone has more bugs and less features than rebol/rebol
Arnold
Hi Maxim, yes I know, they will not remove it. I put it up as a joke on one side, but with the serious thought that without that  resource there would not be this block to go forward.
Rebolek
1) Why is it block? 2) What is the way forward?
Arnold
I like your counting Ladislav. The community is again cought with hands tied behind the back.
Rebolek it is blocking because it is there and it  has still good arguments to be the one and official distro. 2) I don't know exactly, I am not the person to decide, (not that good to make significant cotributions to the code) the community has to get together and reach an agreement. If other communities can than this one should certainly be able to do.
The way forward is to get the ball rolling. Even if it means integrating the Saphir and Atronix solutions to the Ren/C and or creating a complete new repo and integrate the progress from all others.
In any case try to escape this standoff.
What did happen to Earl? Nothing serious I hope? Hope he will be able to return his assignment, or pass it on to a committee of at least three persons.
Rebolek
New repo - whos going to maintain it? Is there anyone willing to do it?
Integrating to Ren/C - Ren/C is not Rebol, it's different language. I'm interested in Rebol solution.
Arnold
Best thing is to express urgency toward earl and Carl to assign a new committee, preferably with a agreed recommendation of maintainers. Who would you like to see in this group?
Rebolek
Its not about who I'd like to see. I wonder if there's anyone who's willing to do it.
Rebolek
Anyway, I want to see someone with deep understanding of Rebol and with enough experience. Someone, who understands why things are done in a way they are done.
Arnold
You qualify!?! :-D
Rebolek
Definitely not. My understanding of Rebol internals is pretty shallow.
Arnold
But you do know a lot what makes Rebol, how it behaves or should behave. And you have plenty of time to do it, for you are regularly discussion matters on SO chat anyway.
As long as you know that I am kidding you now.. But almost everybody is as modest about this. So I don't expect a lot of people to step up for the task.

SWhite
Regarding the alleged documentation about using REBOL on fixed-format data files, I assisted recently with converting some databases from one system to another, and that involved a couple hundred programs for extracting and comparing data from various sources.  I did not want to leave behind a pile of undocumented code for others to deal with, so I tried to write up the general ideas of working with such files, and as long as I did that, I put it on the internet in case it helps anyone else.
Kaj
That's nice, Steven
Reichart
I use Prolific.  
We are wrapping up testing on a local app we call SmartShre, which runs on Win/Mac/Lin.  It is not Rebol sadly, but one day, might convert the Python to Red. It will be made Open Source.
We are also updating QuickShot (screen capture with automatic save to project feature) which was written by Maxim, works great, just needs some dusting off.  that is 100% Rebol, and will be submitted to Open Source as well.
Once we get the basic SmartShare plaform solid, I want to add (after 30 years of wanting this) a set of featurs that REALLY handles back ups the way I want them to be.  Which is "See this mediua here, this CD, copy it, and everything about it to the cloud, and when I want it back, I can even reconstruct the CD if I need to).
Maxim
I still use quickshot all the time  :-)
in fact, I`ve got it in the system tray right now  ;-)

Reichart
Cool. :)
sqlab
@SWhite, you can use parse instead of many copy/part at .... when dealing with fixed length data
as in
parse/all "abcdefghijklmn" [copy a to 2 copy b to 5 copy c 3 skip  copy d to end ]  
>> probe reduce [a b c d]                                                            
["a" "bcd" "efg" "hijklmn"]
DideC
@SWhite: nice analyse and documentation.
But it does not show well the power of rebol syntax IMO.
ie: the SPACEFILL function is quite long in code,  slow and eat memory for what it does.
This one does the same thing :
    fillcut: func [txt len] [head insert/dup tail copy/part txt len " " max 0 len - length? txt]
It's not as readable for beginners, but is a nice example of oneliner.
Oups the right function use a char space, not string :
    fillcut: func [txt len] [head insert/dup tail copy/part txt len #" " max 0 len - length? txt]
Here is a function to compare time and memory usage of code execution :
    tt: func [code num /local d] [recycle  stats/evals/clear  d: now/time/precise  loop num :code  print ["time:" now/time/precise - d "memory:" stats "evals:" stats/evals]]
And the test results of both functions :
>> tt [SPACEFILL "abcedfgh" 5] 100000
time: 0:00:00.144 memory: 8972886 evals: 2500014 800007 400001
>> tt [fillcut "abcedfgh" 5] 100000
time: 0:00:00.114 memory: 5772726 evals: 1500014 800007 200001
DideC
There is a 0.02 seconde due to console. This show the real time (the first execution is slower) :
>> loop 4 [tt [SPACEFILL "abcedfgh" 5] 100000]
time: 0:00:00.169 memory: 8974518 evals: 2500014 800007 400001
time: 0:00:00.125 memory: 8974486 evals: 2500014 800007 400001
time: 0:00:00.126 memory: 8974486 evals: 2500014 800007 400001
time: 0:00:00.127 memory: 8974486 evals: 2500014 800007 400001
>> loop 4 [tt [fillcut "abcedfgh" 5] 100000]
time: 0:00:00.11 memory: 5774454 evals: 1500014 800007 200001
time: 0:00:00.091 memory: 5774422 evals: 1500014 800007 200001
time: 0:00:00.091 memory: 5774422 evals: 1500014 800007 200001
time: 0:00:00.091 memory: 5774422 evals: 1500014 800007 200001
DideC
Notice what empty code test give
>> loop 4 [tt [] 100000]
time: 0:00:00.001 memory: 5374550 evals: 14 7 100001
time: 0:00:00.001 memory: 5374406 evals: 14 7 100001
time: 0:00:00.001 memory: 5374406 evals: 14 7 100001
time: 0:00:00.001 memory: 5374406 evals: 14 7 100001
So memory used by 'fillcut is: 5774422 - 5374406 =  400 016,
but 'SPACEFILL use: 8974486 - 5374406 = 3 600 080 : 9 times more memory due to temporary values !!!
SWhite
Thank you.  As a perpetual beginner, I value feedback.  Your comment, "...not as readable for beginners...," exactly addresses my own difficulties.  When I first encountered REBOL, try as I might, I just could not understand it.  But I knew there was genius in there somwhere just because of who wrote REBOL, so I used it anyway in my own plodding manner.  Now, I suppose, there is a danger that I will pass my "plodding manner" on to others through the internet.  So I will examine your examples, and my own coding, and see what I can do to mitigate any damage I might be causing, before I start on the next "helpful" document I have in mind about data storage (if Nick hasn't covered it already).

Arnold
Great news John! I will for sure take a look at this release of World!

Geomol
Cool! :)
Gregg
Congratulations John!
Geomol
Thank you!

Bo
Doc: Awesome! I'm going to start reading about it now!

Reichart
Is there a page that speaks to what platforms / and OS version are supported?
(and congrats!)
PeterWood
This is missing OS but gives a good overview of what platforms will be supported - http://www.red-lang.org/p/roadmap.html
... and are already supported.
This page lists the OS that are currently supported - https://github.com/red/red - see under Cross-compilation targets.
Gregg
Juge congratulations Doc and Team Red!
DocKimbel
Thanks! I will update the roadmap page now.
Geomol
Congratulations, Doc and team! Looks like an important milestone, and it looks good! :)
I will like to look at your DRAW implementation at some point, to see if all the details are correct.
DocKimbel
Thanks, feel free to fill tickets on github if you find any bug. We currently implement 2/3 of Rebol/Draw, the remaining features will be added in next releases.
Also, there are some AGG-specific features we have not supported, like the segmentation parameter for splines, which is fixed in the Windows API.
GiuseppeC
Nice work doc !
sqlab
impressive, congratulation
Maxim
Bravo Doc  !
Sunanda
Great work! Congratulations to the entire Red team!!
Henrik
Congratulations to the Red team. :-)

DocKimbel
Thanks guys. :-)

Reichart
Awesome.
What generates the roadmap?
(as in, are those numbers guesses, or generated from tasks?)
DocKimbel
Generated by manually typing HTML, haha. Numbers are my raw estimations. I didn't have time to write a generator for such page yet, though, Red is capable enough now for me to code one. :-)
Reichart
So, you (all) might enjoy this.... due to the fact we track everything for Prolific in Prolific, we can do this: https://www.prolific.com/help/help.html?comingsoon#
This is all calculated in areal time.  Not the Rabbit and the Turtle values.

Gregg
Woohoo! Congratulations Doc.
Bo
Nice work on the demos, Gregg!
And great job on Red 0.6.1 Doc!

Gregg
Thanks Bo. Fun stuff.
Endo
Great work!! It will be so much fun to play with new features!
sqlab
congrats
DideC
Congratulation Nenad and thousand of thanks.
DocKimbel
Thanks! ;-)
Sunanda
Cool stuff! Thanks Doc and Team Red!

Arnold
Is Ann-Reply broken?
No. Odd.
Arnold
For the record, messages posted in Announce are reposted on Stackoverflow. Unless your name is Arnold, in which case you had that blocked!
Gregg
Strange. The block must be on the SO side.

Arnold
Yes Chris blocked me at my request.
Gregg
Ah, I thought you meant it was blocked against your will.

Arnold
Can't read and remember to use this group for replying to announce Reichart ;-)

Bo
Quickshot looks great! A few notes: PrtScrn and Alt-PrtScrn don't seem to capture the screen on my system. Does it require a restart?
Also, when placing a text box and you decide you don't want it, how do you get rid of it?

Endo
Nice app!
Can I use it without a Prolific account?
I think shortcuts don't work IF animation is enabled (on Win8.1) when I disable anims on prefs then they work.
Another bug report:
I took a screenshot, made it smaller and position it to the center of the screen,
Then I click another window (QS lost focus) then when I click inside the graphics area in QS the screenshot image went away (it position reset may be)
Reichart
The Print Screen thing has nothing to do with us.  That just shoves the screen into your clipboard.
All QuickShot is doing is pulling a clipoard in.  Simple.
Tap on any object, click on delete.  I think it needs to be even clearer that it is in a state that can be deleted.
Endo, YES!!!
This was designed to make uploading to Prolific super fast easy, and it hands you back a link ready to use for people in the given project.
you can also go into Prolific and get a syndicated link from there to give links to things to people outside of Prolifiic.
Bug - Hmmmm, we will test losing focus more.
(bug has been reported to team)
I may have failed to mention it, but this is open source, we figured we would make ure it was stable, and then post on GitHub.
But if anyone wants a copy of the source I will post a link.
'sure

Endo
It would be nice to see its source code, but no hurry, I'll wait for github. Very nice app by the way.
Reichart
Tthanks.  Maxim did a great job first time round.  Celeste jumped right in.
Our goal was simple:  
1 Get it working and with an installer (bloody Windows).
2. get source out on GitHub
3. hope it is easy to port to Mac/Linux
then...................................... upgrade it to version 2 - which is to say, take requests and make it much smarter and more fun to use.
Reichart
So we are now working on 2 :)

Arnold
Does quickshot also allow to obfuscate certain areas of the screenshot?
Reichart
Indeed!  you can blur as many places as you like, and control how much blur.

Arnold
Some remarks:
- I missed the scrollbars to scroll the taken picture
- Why do you need to Login? this is confusing
- I could not make a screenshot of a selected window (Alt + Prt Scr)
Arnold
- I could blur using blurboxes, but could not find where to set the blur effect stronger or weaker.
And something positive to end my 'review' :-)
Screenshot does have a fresh look and feel about it.
Endo
I could help making a installer for Windows, I've used Inno Setup for several years.
Bo
Endo: The installer seems to already be completed and working.

Reichart
- You shouldn't need scroll bars, since by default the whole page moves around.  (although I think we can tweak this to offer a PIP to help here)  Being able to just  slide the apage around makes marking it up super fast.
- The purpose of QuickShot is to take a pick, and upload it to Prolific.  So you need to log in once (remember your name/password) so it can talk to teh server.
- All related screen shot issues on your computer are an OS issue, but I would like to get to the bottom of it.  What OS are you using?  Take a look at this http://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-take-a-screenshot-in-any-version-of-windows/
- Mouse center wheel blurs,  you will notice hot tips at the bottom of the page.  On my trackpad, I can also blur with two fingers on pad.  But again, agreed, we need to make the clearer.
The features are designed for speed when processing a lot of images, so in that sense it is like a race car.
Arnold
This is on Win 7 Pro. I recently visited that page for I needed this information to help someone.
Arnold
I need to  choose Edit  and then "Use Image From Clipboard" to see the new screenshot.
Arnold
It should remember where I saved the previous image.
The size of the screenshot should be reset for a new screenshot.
Reichart
- Shortcut - so, can you press [Alt] + [PrtSc] and get a copy of a window into your clipboard? (I'm asking this unrelated to QuickShot)  Because I'm assuming this has nothing to do with QuickShot.
- It does remember where it saved it, which would be in a Project.  Are you saying it does not do that?
- Resize - This is an interesting issue, which we have not decided on yet.  It does need a graceful solution.  But again, this is a screen capture utility for bug testing for example.  So most people doing this set it up, and want everything to stay the same.  Perhaps we will at least offer a "Reset [Yes] [No]"
Arnold
- shortcut Yes
- indeed second screen captured wanted to save in the quickshot dir again
- Resize I can imagine that feature to be very pleasant for recurring capturing of almost identical situations.
I decided to go back to FSCapture. I like the features that offers for editing and mainly to quickly select relative part of the screen and using ctrl-C copy pasting it into a (Word) document. This way I collect the screenshots in a sequence and add comments in between too.
Endo
When I select "Autostart with Windows" QS starts and immediately capture the screen into clipboard.
It might be better to give a parameter to not capture the screen during the startup.

Reichart
- Shortcut - So I'm still a little confused.  You're saying, you 'can' get the window into the clipboard, but that hen you try to paste that (using control+v for example) into QuickShot that does not work?  No one we know runs Windows 7 these days, but we will try to test this.
- Save location - We will triple check this.
- Good points about a single doc with many images.  Just so you know, I want this as well, but not in a Word doc (since, well, who the hell wants a word doc)  this is the future direction of QuickShot.
Endo - Noted, it will be done.
Arnold
Shortcut. I take a screenshot <Alt>-<Prt Scr> and that is then present in the clipboard and I have to actively import it into the Quickshot app by using the menu like described.
Could be any document capable of presenting multiple images, just beware that lots of Windows users will use Word too. Those can be paying customers. Paying? Oh forgot the app is free ;-)
CelesteM
Are you saying that whenever an image is loaded into Window's clipboard you want it automatically shoved into QuickShot's canvas overwriting whatever is already there?
Arnold
That is what FSCapture does. I take a screenshot and I want to see the result immediately, to see if I got what I wanted. Perhaps you think about still editing previous screenshots? Then you should make Quickshot multipanel, like browser windows.
CelesteM
I could go for that if we add the ability to work on multiple images at a time so that you don't inadvertently delete your working by writing an iimage to the clipboard.

Reichart
All good ideas.
We plan to add features and make this smarter.  We use it, and want it to match many models.

Chris
The Revault group is a small group that were working on a few ideas in the days after DevCon 2013 (ugh, three years now). There's no significance in choosing this group to publish under for now other than I don't want to be the sole arbiter of this content.
In the absence of community access to the rebol/rebol repo (where I feel this belongs), this at least puts this resource in the hands of some trustworthy stewards.
Gregg
Thanks Chirs.
DocKimbel
Thanks for sharing that repo.
Chris
NP. Should say I believe it's up-to-date. I'm fairly sure this is the version Ladislav looked over for his revisions and they're in there.

GiuseppeC
Thanks Chris, I'll been using it soon when I will find some more time for the Rebol Wiki project.

Gregg
Thanks for the link Arnold!
Arnold
We hope a lot of community members will post their projects, thoughts and experiences here. There was no place for such thing yet. The official red-lang.org blog and wiki have the downside of being the reference and being 'official', supported by Red team. This is more free. You are invited to write a nice article off course ;)

SWhite
"Google vertalen" zal mijn goede vriend geworden.

Arnold
:-) Good for everybody that the blogarticles will be in English, but it might be a good idea later to provide translated articles for younger programmers.

Arnold
To get the blog started I composed two simple articles. Perhaps I'll have an extra one added soon.

Endo
Nice articles Arnold, it would be nice if code blocks could be different formatted like in a <pre> tag or better syntax coloring.

Arnold
Thank you Endo. I submitted them to Arie and he has published them right away putting the images in at the right places. I did not spend much time to investigate into the markup that blogspot follows so it might not have been very clear also. The site was put up very quickly, we are all short on time these days, I agree there is room for improvement in layout. Basically just wanted to get the ball rolling for the community. My idea was to integrate the blog in the redbyexample site. Make it the no 1 'independent' reference site. Perhaps one day it can become more like alistapart.com

amacleod
Bo, I love the stuff you sell. Do you have a store front? Sometimes think it would be cool to have this kind of store that acts like a maker club too. You seem to have a lot of fun 'playing' with all those toys...

Arnold
Perhaps you should do something about the "Untitled" part.

Bo
amacleod: The best kind of work is the kind that doesn't seem like work, right? ;-)
We do have a store front, but 99.9% of our business is done through on-line sales (ameridroid.com, amazon.com, amazon.co.jp, amazon.ca amazon.co.uk, ebay.com). We only occasionally have walk-in customers. We also have a maker club that meets here once a month. We're preparing a project for the Bay Area Maker Faire in May - a retro gaming arcade machine: https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/107242822223857254292
Arnold: If I would have had to guess who would mention that, I would have guessed that it would be you. :-)
Arnold
Bo, sorry I am a bit predictable :-)

Gregg
Nice Ashley!
GiuseppeC
Great news Ashley ! Nice work !
GiuseppeC
Ashley, could I send a little money gift for your work ?

Rebolek
Great Ashley!
DideC
Vey nice news Ashley!

Reichart
Ashley - impressive.
Arnold - Very cool.
Gregg
Thanks for letting us know Arnold.
Arnold
Great to see so much progress on Munge again Ashley!
Reichart, Gregg, thank you. It was about time to get in control for R3 finally in 2017.
Put an end to 'cast in stone open source software'.

Ashley
"could I send a little money gift for your work?" I appreciate the offer, but no need as I'm already well compensated for the work. If you're still keen though, I'd ask that whatever amount you may have been inclined to send my way please send to the Red team as I'd like to help them more.
GiuseppeC
Ashley, I would add this amount of money to a RED project  to have a native connector to a general purpose database engine (Postgresql, MariaDB, SQLLite) or a printing engine.
Which one do you find more useful ? It is your choice the project which will have a BOUNTY + Your GIFT.
Ashley
ODBC? (my main interest is SQL Server), otherwise SQLite.
GiuseppeC
ODBC, or some kind of SQL Server native driver ?
I have discussed a lot about this topic with myself without finding a solution.:
ODBC is universal database access engine for windows, there are ODBCies for Linux too but I am not aware which to choose that would make the project really "universal".
Native drivers give "speed" and other functionality specific to the DB engine.
SQLLite gives portability to be used even on Android...

Reichart
" please send to the Red team as I'd like to help them more."
:)
Endo
Great work Ashley,
Just curious about, why did you change block format from flat to blocked? The old one was compatible with tabular data and we were able to copy/paste from an Excel file.
Ashley
Great question ... moving this discussion over to the !munge group

Gregg
Red Munge! Cool Ashley.

Reichart
:)

GrahamC
@Gabriele - I used up my free AWS year years ago !  :)  But the article is mainly for Apache2 since Carl's article is too old now.

Gabriele
Just need a different email address. :)
GrahamC
And a different credit card!

Arnold
@Graham - that is like "ET, phone home"
Reichart
E.T. might needed to have been forgiven as well.

Gregg
Thanks for the update Graham.

Last message posted 4 weeks ago.